To express purpose

To express purpose

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To express purpose
Message de chienthang posté le 17-03-2010 à 16:16:19 (S | E | F)
Hello everybody,
I have difficulty using "to + infinitive", "in order + infinitive" et "so as + infinitive" to express purposes. I have read a lot about this grammar point but still don't understand when we can use "to+infinitive", "in order + infinitive" and "so as + infinitive" to express purposes. on some websites, they say that "in order" can be shortened in "to + infinitive" and "in order + infinitive" has the same meaning as "so as + to infinitive"Can anyone help me with this please? Thank you very much in advance. Chienthang

Réponse: To express purpose de gerondif, postée le 17-03-2010 à 16:32:58 (S | E)
Hello,

I don't see too much of a difference between these various expressions:

"What do you come here for ? I come here to work" would be the most common.

"I come to help you" is the short form of : "I come in order to help you."

"He hid not to get caught, in order not to get caught" are roughly the same for me.

"I work hard so as to bring up my family": seems less common to me.
Maybe "so as to" gives an idea of consequence on top of an idea of purpose but it is just my impression, I am probably influenced by:

He works hard so that he can bring up his family.(purpose)
He works so hard that he is often tired.(consequence)

Réponse: To express purpose de chienthang, postée le 17-03-2010 à 17:33:29 (S | E)
Hello gerondif,
Thank you for your quick answer. Anyway i would like to know more when we can use one of these expressions. I can give you some situations where we cann't use all of them at the same time.
1/ I am going on a diet to (in order to)lose weight (not "so as to"
2/
The president has a team of bodygard to (so as to) protect him (not "in order to")
3/ Mike hid behind the tree in order not to be found by his friends (not "so as not to"
4/ We took off the boots so as not to make the floor dirty (not "in order not to"make)
5/We wrote Betty's name on the calendar to remember (in order to remember) her birthday (not "so as to )
6/ The government took these measures to reduce ( so as to ) crime (not in order to)
7/ the staff are working at weekends to(in order to) complete the project on time (not "so as to")
8/ She gave up her job to (so as to )take care of her mother (not "in order to")

i really need help with this. Thank you in advance. chienthang

Réponse: To express purpose de newtoglos, postée le 18-03-2010 à 00:07:28 (S | E)

1/ I am going on a diet to (in order to)lose weight (not "so as to" CORRECT
2/
The president has a team of bodygard to (so as to) INCORRECT - DON'T USE SO AS HERE protect him (not "in order to") IN ORDER TO WOULD BE POSSIBLE
3/ Mike hid behind the tree in order YOU COULD USE SO AS HERE not to be found by his friends (not "so as not to" "MIKE HID BEHIND THE TREE SO THAT HIS FRIENDS WOULDN'T FIND HIM" IS BETTER
4/ We took off the boots so as not to make the floor dirty (not "in order not to"make) CORRECT
5/We wrote Betty's name on the calendar SO THAT WE WOULDN'T FORGET HER BIRTHDAY to remember (in order to remember) her birthday (not "so as to )
6/ The government took these measures to reduce ( so as to NO, CAN'T USE THIS HERE) crime (not in order to)
7/ the staff are working at weekends to(in order to) complete the project on time (not "so as to") CORRECT
8/ She gave up her job to (so as to )take care of her mother (not "in order to")

IF YOU ARE SAYING SOMETHING POSITIVE (I EAT SALAD TO STAY SLIM), DON'T USE "IN ORDER TO" OR "SO AS" - "IN ORDER TO" IS CORRECT BUT IN ENGLAND WE WOULDN'T USE IT. JUST USE VERB + TO + (POSITIVE) VERB TO EXPRESS PURPOSE.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE RULE IS FOR "SO AS" BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S AN EXPRESSION WHICH IS USED VERY OFTEN AND IT DOESN'T SOUND VERY ELEGANT. IF YOU NEED TO EXPRESS A NEGATIVE ("I WROTE HER NAME ON THE CALENDAR SO AS NOT TO FORGET HER BIRTHDAY") THEN THIS IS CORRECT, BUT I WE WOULD USUALLY FIND A DIFFERENT WAY TO EXPRESS THE SENTENCE ("I WROTE HER NAME ON THE CALENDAR SO THAT I WOULDN'T FORGET HER BIRTHDAY", "I TOOK MY BOOTS OFF SO THAT THE FLOOR WOULDN'T GET DIRTY" or "I TOOK MY BOOTS OFF TO KEEP THE FLOOR CLEAN") - "SO THAT" + NEGATIVE SOUNDS MORE NATURAL TO ME THAN "SO AS TO"

HOPE THAT HELPS.

: )

i really need help with this. Thank you in advance. chienthang

Réponse: To express purpose de chienthang, postée le 18-03-2010 à 03:22:46 (S | E)
Thank you very much newtoglos. I can imagine a bit when to use these expressions. Have a nice day. Bye

Réponse: To express purpose de prescott, postée le 18-03-2010 à 03:37:39 (S | E)
Hello,

@ Having exactly the same meaning [With the objective of],
'in order to...' and 'to...' are equally possible in both spoken and written English,
1. but in order to sounds more formal and explicit [often used when explaining or instructing, for example] than to by itself.

2. You can always use 'so as to...' instead of 'in order to...', they are absolutely equivalent, with the same degree of formality and explicitness.

3. in order to...' is obligatory before a negative infinitive. => in order not to..., [to... by itself is very unusual.]

4. Stative* verbs like know, look, include, seem, appear, understand, have,... are more commonly used with in order to / so as to.

@ So that.../ in order that ... [normally used with (and before) modal verbs, (can, would, should...)] are also frequently used, but, here again, 'so that' is more common and less formal than in order that.

Compare:
Very formal:I recommend you read the classics in order that you may improve your English.
Less formal: I recommend you read the classics in order to improve your English.
[Colloquial]: I recommend you read the classics so you improve your English. [not recommended though, see the discussion and examples on the Englishforum below]
Lien Internet

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(*) Definition and list of stative verbs (html / PDF available)
Lien Internet

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